Just Repeating Prabhupada

Ever talk to a misogynists, defeat them with the philosophy, but their inability to ever admit defeat lead you to any of the following retorts?

"I am just repeating Prabhupada."

"I'm just following Prabhupada."

"I'm just saying what Prabhupada says."

What devotee, engaged in a spiritual debate, is not trying their utmost to repeat Prabhupada? Everyone is speaking from the perspective they are repeating, as well as following, Srila Prabhupada. Absolutely everyone.

Therefore why anyone make such a comment? It is an unnecessary comment.

It has a purpose though.

What they're in fact saying: "I have absolute authority to say as I have because Prabhupada said it, now I am merely repeating it to you. I am having 100% accurate correctness in this."

What appeared initially as a placid gentle comment (top), is in truth, a concealed belief in their absoluete rightness.

Nothing wrong with genuine repeating of Srila Prabhupada. Repeating him is something that should be done. Make sure it be genuine. Extensively, much is taken out of context when the devotee quoting is attached to their sense gradification of sex or power.

Don't let them pull this. Next time they claim "I'm just repeating Prabhupada," ask them where? Show me the proof. Exact quotes that were not removed from context that resulted in a change of meaning. Srila Prabhupada was not against such inquiry, thus no one should be offended. Factually Srila Prabhupada taught to go to the source of quotes, philosophies too.

After inquiring as such, you will have something (authentic) to work with, because misogynists almost always use various slantings.

Which too is why they rather give a short "I'm just repeating Prabhupada's instructions," rather than prove it. Because then, they no longer have the last word, now feeling "challenged" once asked for evidence.

They dislike this immensely, while can't disagree with such actions because its well-known to be same actions Srila Prabhupada encouraged. Often he'd say to get the text source, and what is it they believe in.

All these "Prabhupada said's." Without knowing a devotee very well, or knowing them but not good friends, a "Prabhupada said" can be misused by them to give maha finality. Ever play the game, telephone? Thus, we want the full quote and its origin.

Once Srila Prabhupada commented: "Prabhupada said, Prabhupada said - Prabhupada never said anything."

Avoid blind following. Know your stuff.

Dig up the data.

.

Sex & Vows, the Hare Krsna Movement

Arguments have been posed from all sides. Some deem it be due to celibacy vows that there's abuse. Give up the vows to fix the Hare Krishna Movement.

Another side insists, polygamy! Many women can get protection by giving sex to good husband.

Some monogomists agree on aspect of giving sex to avoid abuse.

Each extreme contains misunderstandings.

A great deal all ready has been elucidated concerning polygamists. Abridged - they're extremely lusty for sex and power and control; living in that world of lies, showing credit therefore blame to Veda or Prabhupada. Giving polygamists too much attention is as bad as giving none. Too little, no one else tries to correct a thing, leaving others persisting with belief's Prabhuapda is a misogynists & encourages polygamy now. Too much attention - polygamists love - they are attention *hores. That's why the desire for many women surrounding them, serve their upper and lower tongues, must always be present as soon as they snap their fingers.

Next are those speaking to celibacy of the monogmist (marries one woman). Agreed, it is without doubt much child abuse and woman abuse be the result of sexual frustration. What this actually reveals is a problem of pretense. When a devotee pretends to be more than they are, better than they are - it fails. It will escape elsewhere. No hiding allowed by God or even the demi-gods. (Karma gets recorded too.)

A way it reveals itself is physical or verbal beating the object of sex: women and wife.

The other way of its manifestation is beating what would be the result of sex if they could only have it: children. They physically, verbally, even spiritually abuse children because they can't love what they can't have - or think they can't have, or did not come their way the moment they finally desired one, therefore abusing "others" children.

Those who have children but abuse them, do so for many reasons. One as Prabhupada explained, children get in the way of sense gratifcations. Including mental. Children make them think, reflect, or stop what they're doing and serve them (the child). None of what misogynists wish to indulge in much. Its not always fun, its work. Reality check: Fathers who serve children are setting a good example to serve others; and children are a barometer, golden opportunity to see our faults without too much false ego to deal with, then free faults away. However, such men do not want to notice any flaw they have, only others. They're the big family guru, never wrong. (Yet another falsification they make of Prabhupada philosophy.)

Such misogynists do not much see persons or personalism, chiefly they see objects. They likely have feelings which are skyrocketing, pushings they have little control over, including emotional. They often don't recognize it as presence, because of his pretense. When a wall must be held up, it requires much time & energy, can be exhaustive, with no vitality or honesty left to move freely ahead toward truth. The burdon is heavy, but false ego strong.

Some preach: for the Hare Krishna Movement to become successful once more, to bring in new members, to inspire old ones or get them active again, these vows must be changed.

Buddhists monks recognize they have taken vows to remain celibate. There are others who take vows never to marry and remain celibate. Devotees are full-fledged intelligent adults when taking such vows, know what they're doing, many ran after it with a ferver. Moreoever, the Hare Krsna Movement is one of the few that allow priests marriage. Simply not to take advantage. Marriage is not to live like karmi again under religious disguise. Prabhupada said marriage is not a license for sense gratificaiton. If someone can't do like that, what is the difficulty? Just don't do vows part (iniatiaton) and continue devotional practices.

If a reader has a hard time with any of this, try to understand its for, and about, discpiples. That guru is willing to suffer great sickness and other pains by taking much karma away from the disciple and into himself.

Prabhupada indeed has taken much of our karma and still does, for the purpose of saving the devotees. If unwanting to follow his instructions, why not step down? No need to give up worship and chanting of Krishna. Become a FOLK member and still worship Krishna. Chant japa anywhere, any time. Listen to CD kirtanas, or visit temples.

To use pretense to either go wild after polygamy and lording it over, or for others to dismiss higher understanding as only way for sex control over mind, body, senses as through the higher pleasure of Krishna, these misunderstanding or pretense merely results in circular debates. The monogmistic true grhasta (good householder) is to think of Krishna all day long or as much as possible. Then only, can sex desire cease. Whereas the grhamati (bad householder) thinks of polygamy, or sex and power all day.

And THAT is the reason abuse happens. The unwillingness to follow Prabhupada's instructions yet insist on initiation, putting on a good game of pretending, trying to pass off anartha's as normal.

The solution is not to lower the standards Prabhupada has set, but for the devotee to admit when they can't follow them, then do not ask for initiation. Work toward getting to the right stage before requesting initiation and taking vows of celibacy, rather than faking it.

Factually those who are wanting of sex, stopped meditating on the bliss of Krishna. Nobody can merely renounce. Such a pleasure must be replaced with a better pleasure. Many initiates have stopped doing like that, gradually discontinued replacing material pleasures with higher pleasures Krishna offers. Then wonder why their urge to merge has become exceedingly strong. Time to get back to basics.

While true that sexual abuse of women, children - and other forms of abuse of women and children, are due to male sexual frustrations, there are men just as frustrated who do "not" beat women or children. Therefore, why the other men are abusive?

Causes vary. From emotinal instability to entitlement; normality to abuse in their karmi home to molested by rabbi or priest. A great deal of anger and resentment, not knowing where to put it. However, largest reason? They choose to dishonestly follow Prabhupada and to maintain that dishonesty.

The following gets recognition because those who trhtufully do as Prabhupada instructs become cleansed and mended; then benedicted to give up the desire for sex all together. This is reported less since the rise of abuse exploiting Prabhupada's Movement. However, recovery and advancing has been seen. Not lip service, rather actual experiences and evidences.

The goal is to put all attention and energy on Krishna's blissful three-fold bending form, get out of the material world of repeated birth and death, live in blissfull happiness beyond anyones imagination, as it far surpasses anything we have in this earthly world. We don't have to die and go to heaven before we get a taste of it. By genuine practice of Krishna Consciousness any can have sublime experiences now.

Its difficult for many to understand the existance of a pleasere that can be more pleasureable then sex. It does exist. If somone doesn't want to apply themselves in this way anymore, simply renounce initiation too. Continue worship of Krishna. There's always possibilities. Merely, those who are blaming sex abuse on Prabhupada, misunderstand at best.

Sexual abuse is always due to liars, in and outside the Movement. Since when do sex abusers tell the truth, wear red flags, or warn they hold belief they have this as a right; additionally reveal they're usually abusive in many other ways too? Never. They lie, they cheat, and use anything they can think of to hide. Including schemes to give devotees the impression they're kind (hence wouldn't want to hurt their feelings & correct their philosophy), and authorities to think they are spiritually accurate.

Not referencing to child sexual abuse, another matter for another day. ADULTS. Grown-ups can be tricked, not to think we are above it. Therefore, misogynists and polygamists work to groom even the adult into believing they are so kind they'd never hurt a fly. This nature of the sex abusers has less to do with the Hare Krishna movement and more with the age of Kali.

Alhough it has a lot to do with the outcome in the Movement, the contamination, if authorities or strong devotees sit back and do nothing. In the past they've sometimes taken action, sometimes not. More often it's by popular demands, and proof Prabhupada's instructed opposite, when they will step up.

Everyone has a responsibility. We can't complain authorities do nothing if we do nothing. Small venture's fine, its something. Lodge a complaint to someone with power and will listen, post something somewhere, write a snail mail letter if you can (they stand out these days), do something else, talk about it.

Let not history repeat where all reamin silent. Again change or no change will be in relationship to what the populace insists upon, only then do authorities take a drop of action. Big or small, don't be quiet, make those whose responsibility it is to correct this mess, get off their laurals and simply correct it. If they don't, than "this" is the real reason our society will become degraded. Ignore abuse, you get temples and various communities filling up with abusers. A ripe marketplace, good for the pickings. Make friends with other abusers. Network.

This doesn't have to be, only will it should those in power do nothing.

Abuse, and many other such problems, are not the Krishna Conscious philosophy. Just can't imagine Prabhupada pleased about these activities. Therefore as you read or hear, take the time to pick out what is their nonsense, and what is genuine. Never give up Krishna. They misrepresent Him. Krishna gives bliss, protection, happiness, boundaries, genine spiritual enlivenment.

White Supremacy, Male Superiority, Slavery-
http://womeninkrsnaconsciousness.blogspot.com/2010/06/white-supremists-male-superiority.html

White Supremists, Male Superiority, Slavery

This one really curls my tail. Misogynists are usually bigots. With their self-imposed outlook of "who they are" (advanced), lining this up as male superiority, it should not be amazing that in addition, they are prejudiced concerning anyone with black skin. Male or female, irrelevant.

"Lower birth," they complain. Then on to blaming Srila Prabhupada. The reality is, they DON'T UNDERSTAND Srila Prabhupada. They understand that which can be altered and brought 'round to serve their sense of pleasures, including mental pleasure. Acknowledged there are a few (very few) quotes where Prabhupada speaks of slavery, and this was startling. Figured it out- We are speaking of the pure devotees way of thinking, not ours, not the material history of slavery abuse.

After figuring that out, amiably discovered a matching quote! Lost it, but read it. Prabhupada's definition of slavery was indeed different from ours! It was in reference to taking care of those who are extremely poor, less fortunate. How many of us have had a friend or cousin who fell on very hard times, we agreed to let them come stay with us for an extended period. Possibly you offered such persons a job on your farm if you have one, more likely to fix up the house, do some carpentry, or whatever you had to offer. No one is to be left a struggling sudra, and those who can, should reach a hand out to help.

Revised- Above its mentioned having read such a quote. Think I just discovered it. "Yogesvara: Yes, when the sudras were seeing that, "Oh, these men, they are keeping us as slaves, and they are making us work just for our food," then they revolted.

Srila Prabhuapda: “No, no. You should keep them such nicely and friendly way, they will never think like that. They will think that you are giving him food and shelter, and you are taking care, giving them protection to their family. Then they will be happy. Then they are happy. When you give them all protection, then they will be happy. Now… Just like in Japan. The industrialists give all men. They give food. They give education. They give shelter. So they work very happily”

"Bhagavan: They like to work.

"Prabhupada: Yes.

"Bhagavan: It’s not that people like to be idle.

"Prabhupada: I have seen. And the Dai Nippon directors, they live very poorly, but still, they do not like to give up the service because they are assured of their family, protection, medicine, food, education. They did not like. Never mind, it is not very luxurious. Still, they stick. That I have seen." -Srila Prabhuapda, Morning Walk Conversatin, Rome Italy, May 27 1974,

Srila Prabhupada preformed the marriage ceremony of Sudama das (Afro-American man) to Cintamani devi dasi (white woman). He would not have done so if he were prejudiced in the least. "Just like I am talking with you," I am not talking with your shirt. I don’t look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don’t take account of the outward shirt and coat." - Srila Prabhupada, July 5, 1972

Evident that the concept of the pure devotee Srila Prabhuapda's of this subject matter be vastly different than our own. Making next, a great deal depending upon how we the conditioned soul view and addresses these topics. An example of the world may be, taking a pet to the Veterinarian, one can honor the Vet for becoming one, or can make a disrespectful remark: "What’s wrong, couldn't cut it in medical school for human beings?" Clearly the wrong perspective!

There are difference in men, women, cultures, more. If we recognize them as mere difference no one will become puffed up, thus respect will remain for all concerned. A woman can not lift tremendous heavy items. (There's exceptions, but not alluding to exceptions). A man can't have a baby. No matter how hard he tries, he can not become pregnant or give birth. Short of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Only if a human being lets it go to their head and view 'difference' as 'inferiority vs superiority,' does trouble arise. More importantly, its materialistic, not spiritual.

Often we start our learning in relationship to what we identify with - our material body. That is step number one. Prabhupada used various practical examples to help us relate (though not about black vs white). A child first learns, what are "ears?," by touching his own ears; soon learns not to hurt others when he discovered bumping into a wall hurts him. Next the child learns to love their local community by first learning love at home from mum and dad. As they grow, what they learn can expand into greatness, if it is correctly taught in the beginning. One leading to the next. Often starting with our own body, our own community, our own experiences.

A professor of college has a higher position in life than his or her students usually have. We recognize that as a basic fact. Later students may become a professor, simply first, one starts from the humble position.

Our reality is that of living in this world. Case in point: we go to a doctor only to find out we require a specialist. Are we to think the specialist is a higher birthed person then the doctor who went through at least 8 years of medical school? Nonsense. Thus it is not pure understanding of Veda that uses caste system to put blacks, women, Latino, or others, in inferior categories. While that's present in other religions like Hinduism, but its not what Srila Prabhupada taught. We really need to take time out to learn, or become aware of, differences between Hinduism and Krishna Consciousness, assuring we follow Prabhupada's instructions only. (Respect to Hindus. This isn’t about you, rather devotees following Prabhupada accurately.)

If the definition of slavery used by GHQ and other misogynists is accurate, then why do we not see Srila Prabhupada owning any slaves? It is because misogynist men would not want to jog their brain & think outside the box, to accept their western ways of understandings are even western, when they are. They do not want to admit their way of thinking is wrong. Can not admit Prabhuapada speaks in unusual ways, ways many may initially not understand but those with pure hearts want to hear the higher, accurate, understanding.

Those who love the idea of owning slaves rather pass off their contamined desires as spiritual. Yet it is not part of Vaisnava lineage to own slaves. Who owned them? Not Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami, not BhaktiVinode Thakura, no one. Thus when we see Prabhupada speak of it, he is using different meaning, refering to mood of helping out the desperate as if giving them a job.

Srimad Bhagavatam explains in it's introduction:

"The system of varnashrama-dharma is more or less based on moral principles. There is very little realization of the Transcendence as such, and Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu rejected it as superficial and asked Ramananda Raya to go further into the matter."

Srila Prabhupada was never prejudiced! Bhakti-Tirtha swami, Afro-American, was initiated by Prabhupada. He took him on as his disciple full-fledged. Bhakti Tirtha has since left his body (passed away), he shall not be the main topic, and all respect to those who were close to him. The guru/disciple relationship is very serious thing. If the disciple does not make it back to Godhead, the guru must comes back to save him all over again. Do the misogynists believe Prabhupada was a bigot yet willing to come back, if needed, return to this material world of birth and death to again pick up any of his numerous Afro-American disciples? (Or Latino, or women, or white.)

Prabhupada reveals highest knowledge:

"He may be a man, he may be a woman, he may be a sudra, he may be a brahmana or he may be black or he may be white. Everyone can approach to the highest platform of devotional service. It is open field." - Srila Prabhupada, Bhagavatam Lecture, Montreal, 19 August 1968

"The system of caste, or varnashrama-dharma, is no longer regular even amongst so-called followers of the system." Srimad Bhagavatam 2:4:18

Misogynists, you proudly admit to bigotry, enjoy intimidating others - keeping them beneath you, and are not following His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, regardless how often you deceptively insist you are. However, you're doing a terrific job at ruining his reputation on the net. Then again, you can only speak according to your level of realization: HINDSIGHT-

http://womeninkrsnaconsciousness.blogspot.com/2010/06/hindsight.html